inaki: (bikini whale)
[personal profile] inaki
A friend brought up a very good moral question. So I'm gonna pass it along.

If you had the chance to save the life of someone who you hated. Who bullied and possibly even harmed you, would you?

And I don't mean "send them money so they can keep their house" save a life. I mean you're the only person who can offer a transplant and without you they DIE save a life.

Date: 2009-04-04 05:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chris-sawyer.livejournal.com
I'm going to have to answer NO.

I would not. I don't mean to sound nasty, but if someone spent their time bullying, and victimizing others, they should not expect, nor deserve their charity.

It's called reaping what you sow.

What do you think?

Date: 2009-04-04 05:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pathia.livejournal.com
Yes, I would hope the experience would enlighten them too. Very few people are so gone as to be irredeemable.

Date: 2009-04-04 05:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dustwing.livejournal.com
I'm gonna go with this answer, but only if the transplant would still allow me to live a normal full legnth life, like, a blood transfusion etc.

Date: 2009-04-04 05:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dustwing.livejournal.com
addendum: The Scorpion and The Frog comes to mind though. I dont know if I'd expect them to change..but yeah I dont know if my conscience would allow that. Though, if it's someone I didnt have to deal with and just hate via distance, like, say, Cheney? Cheny can DIAF, no sympathy.

Date: 2009-04-04 05:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] armaina.livejournal.com
Depends on what they did that would make me hate them.

In most cases, I would say yes. However, if they say, oh, intentionally murdered someone or raped someone, I'd say no.

Date: 2009-04-04 05:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] loranskunky.livejournal.com
It's an open question too, how bad do I hate them? Did they kill my mom or just tease me in high school? I would probably do it anyway.

Date: 2009-04-04 05:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chris-sawyer.livejournal.com
I suppose the best answer would be... you wouldn't help them to help "them," you would save them for YOU.

When I do something charitable for someone, I often do it because it makes ME feel good.

Besides, nobody should get out of here without suffereng for as long as possible! Muhahaha. :)

Date: 2009-04-04 05:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] synchra.livejournal.com
Hm.

I am in a hateful mood right now, so this is the wrong time of the month to ask me.

If they'd do it for me.. yes, but judging by how mean they were to me, my guess would be NO THEY WOULDN'T.

I also don't really "keep in touch" with people I hate. lol.

Also..if they hated me, why would they take it from me? TOO MANY THINGS TO CONSIDER!

And in what waayyyy were they hateful?

lol. Like... if they killed my friend, then FUCK NO! If they stole a video game or something from me and I stupidly bitter about it then okay. XD

I DON'T KNOW THIS IS SILLY, INAKI.

I'd give you my lung. <3

Date: 2009-04-05 03:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] inaki.livejournal.com
awww <3

Date: 2009-04-04 06:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] toraneko.livejournal.com
provide appropriate medical attention if needed, yes. Provide an organ? No. An organ donation would be for someone I loved as in family or very close friends.

Date: 2009-04-05 03:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] inaki.livejournal.com
I should clarify. No organs, just replenishable stuff like bone marrow or blood. This is assuming minimal risk or harm to yourself to save them.

Date: 2009-04-05 12:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kyhwana.livejournal.com
Isn't donating bone marrow painful?
In that case no, i'd not go through something painful for that person.

Something like donating blood though, which just entails an inconvenience, sure.

Because Karma's a bitch :)

Date: 2009-04-05 08:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] toraneko.livejournal.com
well blood isn't something that can only go to one person and When I donate blood it goes to a bank. I have no idea who gets it. I'm cool with that. Bone marrow? Nope, let them hope stem cell research catches up in time for them.

Date: 2009-04-04 08:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oddtail.livejournal.com
Eh, I am not such a good person, so I don't *know* if I would be big enough to decide to save their life. Also, such questions really work well in theory, but in practice the world is full of shades of gray and every case is unique. And thus, such things are decided or judged on a case-by-case basis.

All that being said? Yes, I would. They probably would not be deserving of something like that, but good deeds are not a stock exchange investment, they don't need to be planned and balanced. I've had things that I didn't deserve happen to me (good or bad), and I'd really want to do some good for someone... even someone I hated.

Also, honestly, there is no single person on Earth I would consciously, consistently and with full awareness wish death. I try not to hate, and I don't think it'd be easy to make me hate someone THAT much. And "bullied and possibly harmed"? I *don't* hate the people who bullied me to the best of their ability. They'd need to go much further.

Anyway... if I did *not* save the person's life, it would be understandable, but bad of me. I hope if I'm ever in a situation even remotely like that, I will follow my principles and ideals. You never know with these things, though, do you?

But again - it all depends on how I'm supposed to save their lives, how much I have to sacrifice, what I hate them for - heck, even on how long I have to decide.

Date: 2009-04-04 11:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] niiku.livejournal.com
If the person had just bullied me, then yes I would probably at least attempt to save them.

If they had physically harmed me, maliciously, or someone I knew and loved, then no. I would not. Fuck 'em.

Date: 2009-04-04 11:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blackswan666.livejournal.com
Nope.

As an EMT, I'd give them medical care, as it would violate the creed "Do no harm" otherwise.

But give them an organ so they could live? Pfffft, fuck no.

Date: 2009-04-05 01:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] showpony.livejournal.com
^ This, 100%.

Dude tried to kill me, saved his life, tried to kill me again, and he lost his life before he even got to me. *Shrug* But I gots his blood on mah boot!! *G*

Date: 2009-04-05 03:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] inaki.livejournal.com
I should clarify. No organs, just replenishable stuff like bone marrow or blood. This is assuming minimal risk or harm to yourself to save them.

Date: 2009-04-06 04:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blackswan666.livejournal.com
Any blood I donate goes to a blood bank. Bone marrow... nope. Only to my husband or a close friend if we were a match.

Date: 2009-04-05 12:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] baja-hyena.livejournal.com
I would certainly aid the person but I'm not going to give up body parts to anyone but a mate or family.

Date: 2009-04-05 12:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wickednavi.livejournal.com
Same boat there.

Date: 2009-04-05 03:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] inaki.livejournal.com
I should clarify. No organs, just replenishable stuff like bone marrow or blood. This is assuming minimal risk or harm to yourself to save them.

Date: 2009-04-05 01:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] its-a-trap.livejournal.com
Would not do it.

While I would hope that such an experience would enlighten them and maybe make them see Jesus or something... I just think my organs are too important to my own well being to give them to someone who only gave me pain and misery.

The only people getting my organs are my family and friends.

Date: 2009-04-05 03:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] inaki.livejournal.com
I should clarify. No organs, just replenishable stuff like bone marrow or blood. This is assuming minimal risk or harm to yourself to save them.

Date: 2009-04-05 03:19 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] its-a-trap.livejournal.com
Oh that changes things a little.

No point in not doing a bone marrow transplant or somesuch, but I should have the right to punch them in the dick (if male) or tits (if female) if they still want to make my life hell.

Date: 2009-04-05 09:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thraxarious.livejournal.com
I personally try to be the Buddha in these kinds of situations. Sure I would give aid and try to help, but would call them on having received my aid if they chose to ignore the lesson. Hopefully they would get it before ending up in another situation like so.

the boilerplate chaotic-good answer :)

Date: 2009-04-05 04:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] circuit-four.livejournal.com
Sigh... yeah, probably. Some people, I'd be more reluctant than others though. :)

But I can't say there wouldn't be a pretty harsh moral calculus. If it was, like, some guy who gave me shit on the Internet, I'd put that aside. If it was someone whom I really thought would make the world a better place by quietly disappearing in a dark alley... well... honestly, I might be tempted to help them along, not help them survive. :>

Date: 2009-04-05 04:23 pm (UTC)

Date: 2009-04-06 07:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] krinndnz.livejournal.com
I should clarify. No organs, just replenishable stuff like bone marrow or blood. This is assuming minimal risk or harm to yourself to save them.

I think that that clarification provides a lot of the answer by itself. Part of the reason to do marrow/blood/other donations en masse is so that people don't have to wrestle with the issue. If you live in a major metro area, say Oakland or San Jose proper, and you donate blood, the odds are very much nonzero that it'll end up in someone "objectionable." But you don't have to think about that when you trot on down to the blood bank: you are freed to assume that it'll go to an accidental-trauma victim or whatever. This lets us do the morally responsible thing collectively, and partially avoids the already-grave free-rider problem with donation.

Even if you ask people directly, case-by-case, I think you can expect a significant number (including me), to say "yes, I would help" to the clarified version. The clarification, for me, points out exactly the line up to which you can be expected to give help without expecting reciprocity. Past that line, the case shifts dramatically. There is absolutely no way, nohow, that I would give Dick Cheney one of my kidneys. This is one of the reasons, in a larger context, not to be a shitty person: if you cultivate a reputation for outright evil, like Cheney, you will find that you can't rely on people to do the right thing uncoerced. If you are a neutral stranger, your odds are better, and if you are widely honored, they're still more improved. As in [livejournal.com profile] circuit_four's favorite bit of Prisoner's Dilemma trivia, you generally have to reach out first, to assume non-minimal risk/harm to yourself, before you can reasonably expect such from others.

In summary, with reference to your picture, it's the difference between the role of the doctor/nursing staff (reasonable to expect them to do their jobs, which generally don't require assuming personal risk/harm) and an unseen Black/Hispanic/Asian/Catholic/Jewish organ donor out of shot (not reasonable to expect them to assume significant risk/harm, because the dude in the KKK uniform has voluntarily killed the expectation of reciprocity).

Date: 2009-04-06 06:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cobaltie.livejournal.com
1) I would say...yes, probably. There's a chance, even if it's a slim one, that someone saving this imaginary person's life might actually change it. Things like that do happen sometimes.

2) Has this person who posed the question been watching a bit too much Lost lately? This same question has come up a lot on the show, a doctor having to save another person who's a complete monster. Granted, the first time there was coercion, but given the choice, the doctor chose no the second time.

3) Where the hell did you get that picture?
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